In our series celebrating the incredible efforts and contributions of EdReports educator reviewers, we chat with science educator Therese Arsenault. Therese highlights why its essential for science teachers to be involved in materials selection including the importance of tapping teachers’ knowledge of their community and kids and why this integral to choosing a curriculum that serves your students’ needs.

Related Links:

Full Transcript

Jess Barrow  00:08

Hi, I’m Jess Barrow and this is the EdVoices Podcast. And today we’re here with Therese Arsenault, who is a reviewer with Edreports and has been an educator for many years, most recently, a math and science instructional coach focusing on mentoring and coaching teachers. Therese, thank you so much for joining us today.

Therese Arsenault  00:28

It’s great to be here.

Jess Barrow  00:30

I would love to start talking a little bit about your own journey in education. I know you’ve had many interesting steps along the way. But how did you sort of end up focus focusing on science and what was your time in science education like?

Therese Arsenault  00:49

So I’m a second career teacher. I was a pediatric oncology nurse. So my background in science was really rooted in anatomy and physiology and health. And for many reasons, I ended up transitioning out and then became a elementary school teacher focusing on math and science. And then for the next 25 years, I’ve worked primarily in grade six through eight, teaching science and then math. And then finally, during that whole journey, I became involved with coaching and mentoring. I was part of the Exploratorium Teacher Institute Leadership, and I mentored many, many, many new teachers in the Bay Area. I have developed our instructional coaching model with the school I worked with. And I have really fallen in love with science, because it was my own curiosity, and interest in science, and I loved instilling awe in young people, because it’s their curiosity that’s gonna carry us forward.

Jess Barrow  01:54

You, also, as part of your trajectory did a lot of work with the transition to the Next Generation Science Standards. And ended up getting a master’s that was really focused on those science concepts. Do you mind to talk a little bit about your work on that front?

Therese Arsenault  02:18

So when I first began teaching science, the NGSS did not exist. And so I was always developing my own curriculum, really getting kids to look at their world around them, and instilling their questions and finding ways to investigate. As I went on, I was developing my own curriculum, and really trying to instill that the doing of science in the thinking of science, not just about reading science. And then the NGSS came along, and I was involved with the transitioning of our school, from pre NGSS to NGSS. And so that involved a lot of professional development for the teachers themselves. And that evolved and impacted how we began to look at science. And that was really incredible to see a shift from the telling to the doing. And what’s most exciting about that, because NGSS is really complex, right? It’s a combination of lots of different things. And you saw teachers energy, for teaching science really grow, because they got so involved with that whole process of awe and wonder, too, right? That’s what science is all about.

Jess Barrow  03:34

Connected to your journey and education, I would love to hear sort of when and why you decided to become a reviewer with EdReports.

Therese Arsenault  03:43

So my knowledge of EdReports began probably in 2015 or 2016 when our school was looking for new math curriculum. And so I got EdReports out and started to look at all of the different curriculums for math. And it was those reviews, those reports were really, really important to me, because they highlighted the strengths and the challenges of each math curriculum. And we were then able to identify the two or three that we want to look at in depth. And then we’re able to match those curriculums to the needs of our students. So that review of the reports themselves were really helpful for me and our school in transitioning. Later I, a year ago, actually, I saw an application to become a reviewer and I had used that report so much, I really said hey, that would be really fun. I’m getting ready to retire. I think it’d be a great way for me to share my experience with just just being sharing my experience and then being intellectually stimulated and the thought of being able to develop or critique or curriculum and to be able to identify quality curriculum was really at the heart of it like, it’s really important to have that when you have to start with a curriculum that isn’t really meeting your needs, then you have a lot more work to do.

Jess Barrow  05:16

You were able to see from using EdReports before with your math adoption, how, how important it is to have that information. And so it’s really exciting that you then because I think when you probably encountered EdReports, well, I know we weren’t reviewing for science yet. So to get to contribute to the the field of science in the same way. Yeah, that’s so exciting, especially bringing all of the expertise that you already had with the NGSS. We talked to reviewers all the time and folks have a variety of different experiences and things that they take from reviewing as well as all of the contributions. What are some of the things that you’ve learned from the experience of reviewing with EdReports?

Therese Arsenault  06:03

The review process itself I felt was really well organized, we had a team of four that got together weekly, we first met in person, so we’re able to build the culture of our team and to see each other and then we met on Zoom. The tools that we’re using were really, really good, like the whole process of starting with a phenomenon going through a storyline looking at the sequencing of lessons, looking to see the alignment with both the standards and the practices, that was like a whole guided approach that you move through. And I really, really appreciated that process and breaking it down into smaller parts, you really got to know a curriculum well. And then the piece that I really, for our team, we were really good at questioning each other and pushing each other’s ideas. And the team was open to thinking differently and taking on different perspectives. Our team was very diverse with all different perspectives on education. And so what I ended up learning a lot from these different perspectives. I just really appreciated the the wealth of information that people brought to work. There was also a document that people have created, which was the NGSS and practices progression document, which I think every educator should actually have. It really highlights what the standards are, what grade grade bands are in, you can see at a glance how they’re developed over time. I mean, there are lots of resources that do this. But this was such an easy to read document. I really, really loved that.

Jess Barrow  07:56

You mentioned how the team had a variety of folks variety of backgrounds and multiple perspectives. And one thing that folks might not know about our process is how, how important calibration is, in terms of coming to consensus for our final reviews, can you talk a little bit about that process that you experienced as a reviewer?

Therese Arsenault  08:22

The calibration process each week: whenever we’re learning a new way of looking at something, we had a we had reading, which highlighted all the research, which led into how they how the this rubric was developed. We had a video that went through all the explanations, and then you had examples and non examples, then we were given a section that we each rated. And then we would put that in our document and then we would talk with each other either through email, or in person about the different perspectives. And make sure that we are all looking at a particular item in the same way. So that we knew that. And then if if we had some disagreement, which you often did, because you have different perspectives, you would, I would say, Hey, I’m looking at it this way. What do you think? And someone will say, Oh, yeah, I see that. And then we would search for evidence to back it up. And then we would come to consensus on which approach to take.

Jess Barrow  09:33

Yeah, that’s so I mean, that’s such an involved in-depth process. And I think, you know, kind of a behind the scenes peek of how we’re actually doing things as we put together these reviews and how many folks are involved as you think back to your as your you know, over your time as a reviewer, are there things you’re most proud of about your work and your contribution to the field?

Therese Arsenault  09:59

First of all, I didn’t understand how important it would be for me to be a writer and to communicate. And I really learned how to write evidence statements that were based on the facts that you saw them in terms of relationships with those. And I think over time, my ability to do that grew. But I really felt that they were authentic and real. And they were honest. And so they were, that to me was really good. I really felt that we got to know what curriculum fairly well, and we were able to identify its strengths. And we were able to identify gaps. And I think that we did a really good job of being honest in using the tools the way we were given and being able to give a pretty realistic overview of a curriculum. And I feel like I’ve made a contribution to developing quality materials.

Jess Barrow  10:58

When we’ve chatted in the past you you mentioned no one curriculum fits everybody, right? So that’s really the value of having those the knowledge of the strengths and gaps to give sort of that foundation. And then for folks to really think about is this going to work with my community? But if you don’t have that information to begin with, you know, you’re not going to have a sort of baseline of quality to start.

Therese Arsenault  11:27

I agree with that. That’s because it’s very important to know your community, it’s important to know the curriculum, it’s important to know that, oh, yeah, I can live with that challenge, or I can’t. And it’s important to know where the strengths are, and does it meet your needs? We first saw that both in the math curriculum, and then what our school was looking for additional science curriculum. That’s the other thing that we kept come up with, does it meet the needs of our students? And writing curriculum is not easy. Writing curriculum for the entire United States is not easy. Our communities are different. And even some science curriculum have fantastic phenomena and storylines but it has nothing to do with your community. And so how do you engage students when in it seems so far away.

Jess Barrow  12:19

I mean, it is a huge contribution, because we’re still sort of in the beginning with science, right, there’s a lot more left to be reviewed a lot more information to give to folks. So for a long time, there wasn’t any anything at all. So being a part of that, you know, these initial programs that we’re reviewing, and you know, more to come, of course, but is a huge step in the right direction.

Therese Arsenault  12:48

Yeah. And I also think that a quality curriculum serves a teacher, a student, that for in terms of quality curriculum can actually help develop pedagogy in your own self, it can help you understand your own science and what you need to learn. And then in turn, as you get stronger as a teacher, using that quality curriculum really enhances a student’s experience. And ultimately, it’s our young people that benefit from quality curriculum.

Jess Barrow  13:22

Absolutely. I think you’re you’re connecting to the like, why is this ultimately so important? The stakes. You mentioned that it’s important for teachers to have access to these things, because it shapes their own practice and pedagogy. Are there other things you’d want to highlight about why it’s so important that teachers are supported with this with these quality programs, particularly in science?

Therese Arsenault  13:51

When I think of my own trajectory as a teacher, and then think about when I first started – as exciting it is as to develop curriculum, it’s time intensive, right? And so you end up working harder. And so when you have a quality curriculum to start with, it’s a better launching pad, I think, I think over time, when you’re using quality materials, then you begin to think, oh, I can adapt this to my particular context, right? You know what you can do. And then when you have a quality curriculum that’s involving all the cross cutting concepts, and the practices and the standards, you begin to see how the practices all work together. And then those practices become part of your pedagogical stance, and then it becomes so rich and exciting. And I feel like it’s just such a boost to give teachers that experience where you’re starting from a really high level when then you can take people further and the better our curriculum The better the whole experience is for all of us.

Jess Barrow  15:03

And you’ve seen you’ve seen all sides of that, given your your own journey and in the education space, you know, connected to that. It’s so important that teachers have access to quality curriculum. But we know that part of making sure that materials are used and use well, is for teachers to have a voice in actually selecting new materials. You’ve been up, you know, you are part of an adoption process. And why do you think it’s so important to make sure that teachers are sort of meaningfully engaged and involved in an adoption process?

Therese Arsenault  15:40

I feel like sometimes our decisions in education are made thousands of miles away from a classroom. And you can never underestimate the power of an effective teacher, right? And it’s the insights of what works with kids. Knowing the sequence of things, right, it’s that knowledge that a teacher brings to that process of knowing Yeah, this sounds really great on paper. But in reality, you might want to look at it in this way. And I feel like a beginning teacher in particular, can benefit from having that wisdom, right, that they’ve, that there’s been teacher involvement in this and they know that the teachers have been doing this. And then they get to learn and then an experienced teacher can then just say, yes, and let’s do the more and more, right, I just feel like having teacher voices involved with curriculum will enhance the curriculum, and it encourages more motivation and buy in, and then you then have better curriculum and better outcomes.

Jess Barrow  16:54

I cannot agree more. Therese, is there anything I didn’t ask you about today that you would want to reflect on about your experience as a reviewer or just relate the importance of materials or anything at all that I might not have covered in our conversation?

Therese Arsenault  17:13

Like, in terms of me, my experience as a reviewer was, I don’t know, it was a highlight of my last year actually. I appreciated the input. I love learning about a new curriculum. I love thinking about whether this would be engaging to kids or not. I actually got into that, like, understood a little bit about, as I got involved with the curriculum, I started to understand how how a curriculum writer was writing, and you could see their perspectives being woven in. And I felt like, you know, this was really meaningful. And I think everyone should have that experience of reviewing, actually, because it opened your eyes. And I learned even more deeply about NGSS. With the tools that we have, I really think people do benefit from could benefit from reading ad reports. And I recommend EdReports when people say blah, blah, blah. I said, Hey, have you looked at this? Because I think it’s a great starting point, and starts to generate lots of questions, and you start to know that momentum starts to go forward. You have a good place to start.

Jess Barrow  18:28

Oh, absolutely. Well, I on behalf of the organization, and just as someone who’s been a part of the organization for a long time, I can’t thank you enough for all that all the hours I know it takes to complete a review for multiple people. And just thank you so much for your contribution and we look forward to working with you more in the future.

Therese Arsenault  18:49

Bye, thanks, Jess, this was enjoyable.

Jess Barrow  18:53

Thanks so much.