We recently chatted with two early literacy experts: Stephanie Stephens, EdReports principal of early literacy and educator reviewer Erin Marshman, currently the director of training and development at the AIM Institute for Learning & Research. Both Erin and Stephanie bring decades of classroom experience with a focus on building the reading skill skills of young learners. Dive into this episode to learn more about EdReports recent revamp of our foundational skills review tools, our newest foundational skills reports, and the power of our educator-led review process.

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Jess Barrow  00:08

Hi, I’m Jess Barrow and this is the EdVoices Podcast. Today we are joined by Edreports principal of early literacy, Stephanie Stephens, and educator reviewer, Erin Marshman, who is the Director of Training and Development for AIM Institute for Learning and Research. And she participated on some of the most recent foundational skills reviews. And we are going to be talking about our recently released reviews, our updated Foundational Skills Review Tool and really diving into the importance of supporting teachers and students with high quality instructional materials particularly focused around literacy. So Stephanie, Erin, thank you so much for joining today. You know, as we before we dive into this big, big conversation would love just to talk learn a little more about you talk a little bit more about you, your background and your journeys and education.

Jess Barrow  01:01

Stephanie, we can start with you, would you mind to like, talk about your own journey in education, particularly connected to early literacy and sort of the value of foundational skills and instructional materials within that?

Stephanie Stephens  01:26

Yeah, absolutely. So lifelong educator. I taught in Duval County Public Schools in Jacksonville, Florida, for over 15 years, and I’m a public Montessori educator, too. So, Montessori is near and dear to my heart. Along the way, I, I was a upper elementary teacher. And then I also was an instructional coach. And what really stuck out to me in my, in my journey, is the way I was teaching at the time, and what I was seeing in the classroom, but I started working for an organization on the side, called Hope at hand, it was a nonprofit. So after hours, I would go work in detention centers, alternative education, drug rehab, facilitation, mainly working with teenage girls and women that were what we call that promise. And I have a heavy arts background and focus on art.

So I was going into the places to work with females, and providing poetry and art less instantly with a focus on healing, right. And what I kept encountering at this time, and keep in mind, I was also a classroom teacher during the day and doing this in the evening was I kept coming across, you know, if I was going to do a poem and introduce a poem that a lot of the females I was working with, actually didn’t have literacy skills to even read the poem fluently, or decode some of the multisyllabic words. And I went back to the executive director with this noticing, saying, hey, you know, I know that this is the intent of this is really to get out healing and create our own poetry.

And there’s no right or wrong way to do that. But I’m also noticing, and she’s was also an educator as well, that a lot of the women I’m working with, they actually can’t really read. And so we went back to the drawing board, I put myself through a training, I went through, you know, structured literacy training, I was really trying to get hit, like, why is this happening? What can I do? And we were brainstorming, and we decided, after training, I went through like a year long training, to rewrite some of the lesson plans to incorporate, like, elements of reading, you know, breaking apart multisyllabic words, like how could we get these women that were literate, basically, to start reading in this in maximizing the hour to 90 minutes I had a week. But in that I also had this epiphany in my own teaching of like, oh, my, I was really even as a Montessori teacher, you know, we were still a public school.

And we were really taught like bounce literacy. And a lot of things that we were using was either teacher created materials, really utilizing the workshop model, and not being a heavy focus on foundational skills even and not really connecting, you know, your reading and writing because you’re doing the workshop model. So it was a huge like, I like to always say when I go and present like I’m recovering balance literacy teacher. You know, it took me going through training.

And it took me really seeing what happens and, you know, secondary and even adult, if they’re not taught access to the code, like it was really eye opening for me, I ended up from there going to work at the state office for PE center for girls and alternative education with a heavy focus on the reading intervention classes in the 20 centers across the state. And really putting high quality instructional materials in front of them with the teachers because it just you could just see like to Martinez’s work around school to prison pipeline and action because that’s exactly what I was seeing happening and I’ve been passionate about it ever since. And I know Look at it starts in early literacy, we have to start at pre- K level with this work.

Jess Barrow  05:04

Yeah. Now you’ve really, really seen real life examples of how this can impact people for their whole lives if they if they don’t have the supports at a young age. Erin, could, would you mind talking a little bit about your background? And similarly, what, you know, what has shaped you in understanding the value of foundational skills and, and making sure young students have the supports?

Erin Marshman  05:31

Yeah, for sure. I think it’s interesting that Stephanie kind of focused on the adult, like what it looks like from the adult perspective. I also have worked with in my journey, I’ve worked with adults, adult students and doing some grad work, teaching courses at Delaware Valley University. And also my position now at AIM. As Director of Training and Development, I help provide PD to adults. But primarily, where my aha moment like Stephanie said, the epiphany moment was really, in my practitioner years, I have a dual certificate, and elementary and special education. I had, I have a master’s degree in reading.

But in the beginning, when I was going through my coursework, and had these degrees, these trainings the certificate, I realized when I was put in front of the students, I did not have the skills needed to help them crack the quote of literacy. I mean, I did everything I like Steph said, there were at many after our spent training, and in trying to figure out the how, but most of my years was, I was a second grade teacher. I always had the CO taught classroom, I always had those students that had those specific learning disabilities and reading. And why not I had this specialized degree, I had my master’s in reading, so it made sense. But like I said, I just couldn’t get my students to crack the code.

So I went to my curriculum director and said, Hey, honestly, almost in tears, like, I don’t know what else I can do to help these these students. The needles not moving, they’re still coming up read. I don’t know what to do. I’m doing that the interventions I’m following the materials are giving me it’s just not working. And she said, Oh, you know, there’s this training that we have locally, and it was a training. It was all about structured literacy. And it was eye opening. Because as I was going through the training from the teacher perspective, and teaching six years at that point, I thought, why aren’t we doing this for all kids? Why is this a tier three, intervention?

So long story short, want to keep babbling, but I went back to the curriculum director and said, Hey, Do I have permission to take what I’m learning in this training, which is really targeted for tier two, tier three, and apply it to our current set of materials curriculum that we’re using in tier one. And she gave me her blessing. So I did that. So I realigned. Basically, what I did was I took the foundational skills that were missing from this, the set of materials we were using, and our tier one and started plugging it in.

And we saw massive amounts of growth, so much growth, that they pulled me out of the classroom, I became an instructional coach, I pushed into k one, two, I also then went and worked at the third and fourth grade level, the intermediate level, that was about a six year journey for me, I became the assistant director of Orton Gillingham training at the school, and we would push in and support the teachers and train them on the structured literacy principles while also supporting students. In that timeframe, I also went back and got my principal certificate.

So I was able to use kind of apply it not just from the practitioner lens, but also from the administration lens, working at the systems level change to make sure that it wasn’t just occurring in one classroom, but it was working throughout living and breathing throughout the district. And then, as I mentioned at the beginning, I ended up helping build out the graduate program for a local university so that we were also reaching the the teachers that were being trained in this within our area. So really working at all different systems level.

And I go back to the why behind that was because the needle was moving the data was the data was speaking that students were making gains. And yeah, so that was my journey in a nutshell, but always all around foundational skills. Because I go back to, here’s all my certificates, here’s my degrees. Here’s my training. I didn’t know what to do. When following the materials I was given. I wasn’t able to help the kids crack that code. So it’s always been a passion of mine.

Jess Barrow  09:54

Yeah, and I mean, you saw firsthand well like changing the content and giving support Teachers could mean for actual student results. So it’s really hard to argue with that.

Stephanie Stephens  10:06

We can both say here to like master’s in education, master’s in education, we were still seeking, like, what is missing? What is happening? We were still seeking that information, even though we’re lifelong educators.

Jess Barrow  10:21

No, that’s I think that’s such an important point to make. Because it really illustrates how having the right resources, the right content, the right approach, you know, it doesn’t just happen, right. Like it has to be deliberate. And, and you found a way to bring that in. But it doesn’t just like, yeah, it has to be choices that that folks are making at all different levels.

Erin Marshman  10:48

Just I think you bring a good point up to you mentioned, like, you could find a way to bring it in. And as an instructional coach, I know Steph and I have had these conversations in the past. But that’s what some of the teachers were doing. They were bringing certain materials and that weren’t HQ. Iam isn’t something that we deem as quality. And because to no fault of any teacher, I also did at the beginning of my career, we were all grabbing at what can we do to help these kids? So yeah, I think that was a an eye opener to walking into the classrooms and seeing teachers use these resources that were not evidence based align these kids were, you know, doing activities, but not aligning to the research.

Jess Barrow  11:35

And again, the teachers, every teacher out there is just trying to do the best for their students course, like it’s more about what can we do at the system level, to provide that blanket support from all the way up so that teachers aren’t having to spend their time and energy to do that. And students are getting a more equitable experience across the board with what they have access to.

Thanks so much for sharing more about your journeys. I wonder, Stephanie, I know you’ve been you have a long history at edreports. As a reviewer, as a member of staff, just a big part of the community and sharing and sharing your expertise. Would you mind to talk to us a little bit about the organization’s journey with ELA and foundational skills reviews, really starting in 2016, up up and continuing to this day?

Stephanie Stephens  12:24

Yeah, I love telling the story of like, in 2016, as I said, like Duval County public school educator, you know, 2016, I get this call from every port. It’s like a random call, like, what is edit reports. And just like this impromptu interview, and I got my first ever invite, to go to Chicago and be a part of the anchor, educator working group, and I was like, What is this life like, I’m getting this, I get to go to Chicago, it was my first time working outside of my district and working with others across the nation.

And in that working group, like I will never forget, some of my first experiences with reports was, you know, really designing that tool. And in that tool design at the forefront, and 2016 was the shifts from the Common Core, right like, and you can see that reflected in our comprehensive tool, really focus on text complexity, using evidence from the text and building knowledge. And part of the group I was in was really building out the foundational skills portion of that original tool.

And so, you know, in 2016, when we came around, we were really looking at alignment to the shifts, first, you know, what was deemed in the publishers criteria, and then the standards. So if you look at gay, we wanted to say, alignment to the shifts and standards and still looking at those research based practices. Even in foundational skills, we were still always looking at, does that have a research base scope and sequence? Is the instruction systematic and explicit? And is it aligned to the standards, right? We always knew that the standards were like those grade level expectations, the what, by the end of the year, but we were looking at, but how are we getting there as well. So the systematic and explicit instruction was still present there.

But we’re really focusing on you know, at the time when Common Core rolled out the gold sticker, Common Core line, Common Core line, Common Core lines, and when we started the reviews, it was really eye opening that a lot of the products hadn’t actually changed. They were just, you know, slapping the gold sticker on so around 2019 is when I came on full time after being a reviewer and consultant since 2016.

And we had embarked on developing the foundational skills tool, there was a need for that, again, listening to you know, the public and educators talk about but I’m using the supplements, I’m still supplementing my core, you know, we’re using this, this or this and patching right? And so there was a strong need to design a tool that really got at the foundational skills and we’re really dug deep. We worked with an advisory. The tool went through several rounds of iterations with feedback from our research advisory as well and then launched In 2019, with sets of reviews, and then that spark, I love that versus your growing organization that it’s like, oh, wait, now we have to go back to the comprehensive tool, revise that as well, it makes sure there’s a title alignment between the foundational skills there, and the foundational skills supplement.

So then we embarked on revising the comprehensive tool. And now I can say, again, as a learning and growing organization, I started to work on the foundational skills revisions. Last year, and around March, really starting with a listening and learning tour, the team embarked on several rounds of interviews with stakeholders, partners, educators, and really taking time to revise the tool based off of even like a lot of state policies that are out right, looking at structured literacy. What is, you know, the science of reading, that we’re deeming this body of knowledge. And then working with the advisory as well to revise the foundational skills tool can embark since last March.

So it’s been through several rounds, again, with the advisory and the research team, the research advisory to get to where it’s at now, and launched with another round of materials, constantly growing and listening and responding to the research and policy, but also feedback from educators and what they want to see and materials as well. So I feel like from 2016 to 2024. Again, we’re always growing and learning and responding. And now we’re embarking on comprehensive revisions across, you know, ELA, math and science, so continually growing, and continually making sure that we’re responding to research policy and our practitioners feedback.

Jess Barrow  16:49

Yeah, I mean, that’s a big theme I’m hearing from you is, we’re not doing these things in isolation, right? Our Our aim is always to provide educators and districts with the information, they really need to make these big decisions, and to ensure that their students are getting the best materials.

Jess Barrow  17:08

You know, you’ve talked a little bit about that feedback process. And, and sort of the landscape in general with a lot of new policies and legislation that districts are having to adhere to as they think about selecting new materials. You know, would can we dive in a little bit to the nitty gritty of like, we just released these new foundational skills reports, which used an updated tool, you mentioned already some of the pillars that we’ve always had in our tool around foundational skills. We’d love to hear a little bit about some of the important updates that you think you know, you’d like to highlight about the new tool and what folks can maybe expect to see in these new reports.

Stephanie Stephens  17:54

Yeah, so at the start, we really took a look at the Gateway system to because that’s some feedback. That’s important feedback to from the field isn’t a gateway to in the first version of the foundational skills tools, where we would house the scope and sequence, the assessments, the decoder bowls, and we made a decision that you know, what if materials will go to Gateway to that’s important information that happened gateway one. So we moved the research base scope and sequence, we removed the assessments, because if we’re going to talk about being diagnostic and prescriptive rate to have that assessment information and Gateway one, and we use the in context practice of decodables to Gateway one as well. So that was a shift in what we were reviewing in the gateways.

And then in the gateways, we put in non negotiables. So for the first time in gateway, one, we have non negotiables of mind to the report national reading panel. So materials have to pass phonemic awareness, phonics, and fluency in order to go on to Gateway to and also can’t have evidence of the three queuing system, which is something new as well. And we’re looking for any type of evidence of the use of the three queuing system.

So we know if it’s used for if it’s being used for decoding practices, we’re going to highlight that in the reports as well. So that is present in the update. As far as I can nuance getting into the weeds and excitement of people like Erin and I that will love this type of work. We can get overly nuanced overly into the weeds, but we took a heavy focus on really aligning to theoretical models, print concepts will now be part of the comprehensive tool. So we move that out and aligning to symbol research. So looking at phonemic awareness only not phonological but looking at how long the material is spinning on phonological sensitivity before getting to phonemic awareness. Looking at that, how students are practicing so we know we’ve always reviewed for systematic and explicit instruction. Now how are students practicing and is that evidence based? What are those structured routines? Are they getting to mastery? Is it all blocked practice? Is it interleaved practice, or is there mixed in retrieval practice as well.

So we’re looking at how there, and then a strong focus on how students are learning as we deem high frequency words. So making sure that we’re not solely just basing it off memorization is there a mapping of the phoneme grapheme once that is known by the student as well. So a really tight alignment on the how I like to say in this revision, we took an understanding that there’s things that are missing the foundational skill standards, right. And so we really lead with research and evidence based practices.

First, we look for a little bit of standards alignment and phonemic awareness only and in phonics, and then realize that we’re making sure that students have sufficient practice opportunities to get towards mastery. And that’s what the team really works on in consensus to making sure that you know what, this isn’t meat, it’s getting students toward mastery, because that’s what we want, we want students to master the content that they’re being given in front of them. So that was a lot of like, nuanced stuff. I mean, there’s a little bit more in there.

But really, there’s evidence based routines, structured routines, and also bring forth the reviewers are great at this practices that aren’t aligned that we can maybe deem harmful. So that’s something we heard from the field, like, Hey, we are the strengths of this program. But could you also let us know if there are weaknesses that we need to be aware of, so we’re bringing that forward in the report, but we’re also going to bring it forward in that series overview as well. So you can read that and know exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of the program are.

Jess Barrow  21:44

Thank you so much for highlighting some of those, the ways that we have, we have those pillars, we’ve always had those pillars and how we are updating based on what what we’re learning and what we’re hearing from the field, and what we know is vital for students and teachers. Erin, would you mind talking a little bit about? You know, Stephanie, really just described a lot of these updates, and has gone deep for us on EdReports journey, what was it like as a reviewer to be a part of these reviews and using this updated tool?

Erin Marshman  22:18

Yeah. So I can tell you that we spend many countless hours going in and out of the materials using the tools. We love the tools, the Review Tool, the evidence guide, it’s our go to. But yeah, we spent a lot of time in the materials weekly, so much. So I feel like you know, close your eyes, and I can see gap around the material. I know where to click, like in my sleep I’m reviewing. But the coolest part, I think is we have these tools, we have the evidence guide that keeps us all in alignment. And we use those indicators, we’re specifically looking, is this in the set of materials that we’re reviewing? Is it partially there? Is it not there at all?

I think it’s interesting to once in a while we will be divided. You know, there’ll be some reviewers that are like, no, it’s meets, and some that are it’s partial or not as often. But you might have an extreme of meats and not meats completely. But we always make sure we come to consensus. We have our weekly team calls. We have what I call professional debates. Where we go back to that evidence guy now let’s pull it up. Let’s look at it. There’s research attached to the evidence guy, let’s go back into the research. This is explicit, this is what it states do. We see that in the set of materials. And then we always come to consensus before we move forward. But sometimes it is, hey, let’s pump the brakes. We need more time on this one indicator, sometimes one indicator can really up a whole review process. Okay, you want to make sure you’re getting it right.

Jess Barrow  23:54

And again, it’s all based is all evidence based, right? This isn’t like a feeling that someone has, you’re all making sure you’re collecting that evidence. And every single indicator is that important. That’s why it can hold the team up sometimes for good reason.

Erin Marshman  24:12

Yeah, yeah, you’re right. That’s a good point to make. Yeah, and it is it’s very time consuming. But we’re all a dedicated group of people. We’re all very passionate about each HQIM and teacher knowledge and the science of reading structured literacy, you know, all that good stuff. So we put the time in and we do what needs to happen. I think it’s just really important to know that what it looks like we have the lead, we have the writer we have the reviewers. It’s not just a one man show. There’s all hands on deck and we all bring our own expertise, our own background, we have administrative principles that serve on the team. We have the instructional coaches, the teachers and all across the country.

So yeah, I think another piece two is that we have such a strong background, we know what it should look like. So we have to come into our team call meetings knowing that like, just because we know what that set of materials, how it should be implemented, or what should look like, is it explicitly listed in there for the teachers that might not know, you know, they’re not all coming with the same background knowledge?

Jess Barrow  25:24

I hear you. And I think I mean, at the heart of EdReports, really has always been that our reports are by educator for educator, and I love to hear from both of you. But Erin, if you want to, if you want to start, why do you, you know, as as someone who literally helped create these reviews, why do you think it’s so important to incorporate the voice and expertise of educators into not only this review process, but it’s Stephanie already mentioned in developing our review tools, as well as the reports, why why do you think that’s so important?

Erin Marshman  26:01

I think that’s really simple to answer. It’s just really, the teachers are the ones that are implementing it, right. So my silly example would be, you know, you wouldn’t ask a teacher to do a mechanic’s job, right? Like that is their expertise. So that’s it, I mean, I can I can go off on a tangent on it, but they’re the ones that are using it. And, again, we have the background, we have that teacher knowledge. But we need to make sure that it’s so clear and so crisp for teachers that maybe don’t have the same level of knowledge. So that would be my answer to that one.

Jess Barrow  26:40

Yes, definitely. Would you want to add anything I know you’ve had you’ve worn so many different hats over the almost 10 years. So how do you think about that, especially as someone who’s been a reviewer yourself, and also has been leading these reviews?

Stephanie Stephens  26:55

I think Erin nailed it. The most important part is the practitioners experience. And they’re the ones in the classrooms every day doing the work every day. And if we didn’t incorporate their voice, then we can’t even you know, we say all the time Research to Practice Research to Practice Well, you know, a lot of educators don’t have time to really synthesize and, and think of the research. And then so to transpose that to practice, like, we incorporate their voice, because we use the evidence guides that have the embedded research, then they’re bringing that to the practice and thinking of their educator lens and how this would work in their classroom with their students. I think it’s the most important part of the whole entire process. Because this is for educators, they’re the ones using it. They’re the ones doing the work every day in the classroom, they’re the experts in my tribe, are the experts.

Jess Barrow  27:50

I think you all have reflected on this a good bit. So there’s no, you know, no stress to like, add anything if you don’t have additional thoughts, but I’m wondering if you do if you happen to have some, some more thoughts around, you know, we talked about the importance of making these updates. And we talked about the importance of including educator voice in the process. Are there other things you would want to say about why it was and why it’s important for EdReports to sort of approach this as growing and learning? Why is it important for us to revise our tools periodically? Are there other things you would want to reflect on around the importance of making these updates in this new tool?

Erin Marshman  28:36

From the reviewer viewpoint? I think my entire career not even just looking at it from the reviewer side at EB reports. But research is ever evolving, right? Like it’s constantly changing and it’s our job no matter what Lane we’re in an education to keep up with it. So for me, I view it as a string of keeping up with the evidence keeping up with the research rather. And yeah, you know, better you do better and it’s it’s not going to go away. We’re going to constantly continue to change I my current position right now we are constantly updating based on the research, I see it at EdReports we update based on the research in the classroom as a classroom teacher, my implementation and delivery of lessons every year changed based on the more knowledge and expertise I had. So for me, I view it as a strength to be able to identify nowhere we need to change and then even more so actually make the change. I think that’s great. So that would be my little last tidbit there.

Stephanie Stephens  29:40

Okay, Erin, you nailed it. And I think like what saved me laugh is like could you imagine if we didn’t grow like I think back to when I was 22 years old, which was wanting to talk about how many years me my first year teaching if I was still that same teacher, like give the keys close the door and you’re like, oh, I hope I survived this year like.

And, you know, like, I think, Erin, you nailed it research, it’s always the whole point of research is to grow right and to learn and to do better. And so I think it’s our duty as people and reporters, reviewers, who kind of stuff doesn’t matter to grow with that, like, we can’t stay stuck, we have to grow with the Research is the research grows, we grow and work, what a great place to be right to always grow. Right? When you’re green, you grow when you’re ripe, you rot.

Jess Barrow  30:32

And Stephanie, I know you’ve done a lot of work in the field for EdReports. So not just on the review side, I mean, as part of these adoption processes, and and as more quality materials have become accessible. You know, I know that supporting educators with a strong implementation plan and professional learning is also something that our team kind of strives to support states and districts to do. Do you feel like that also applies to these foundational skills materials?

Stephanie Stephens  31:05

Oh, absolutely. A strong implementation plan? Like, honestly, that’s the beauty of the reports, right, is that implementation plan, if you look at the strengths and weaknesses of in the reports, and then you look at your student data that should really drive your implementation plan, maybe even your school improvement plan. So if you have a heavy focus on like, let’s say phonemic awareness and phonics instruction this year, looking at the reports, and the strengths and weaknesses in that program that you’ve adopted, will help you create that implementation plan. And I just want to like, put in here, the importance of aligning professional development builds to teachers knowledge as well, the professional development that teachers embark on should be aligned to what they’re implementing in the classroom. Right. So and I can I, again, this is a place where I can say I’m guilty of that I was an instructional coach for years.

And I remember like early release day, what are we going to learn today, like, you know, wasn’t as thoughtful, it wasn’t as strategic as you would want to see an implementation plan be where you’ve really laid out a one year two year three year learning around the materials and knowing that year one is going to be tough. Like, that’s some conversation that we have all the time, especially if it’s a change in teacher practice. So that year one implementation has to provide a lot of support, teacher professional development, teacher coaching, and all the support there. I think that’s important.

And we say a lot in the field to implement with intention around implementing exactly as the materials are enacted, supposed to be enacted, because you can’t tell where you need to maybe potentially supplement or place in the set of materials until you have that first year of data as well. So it’s just incredibly important to be thoughtful and strategic around the implementation plan and ensure that your teachers have all the support they need in the classroom to enact those materials.

Jess Barrow  32:57

In the last couple of minutes. I just want to make space and again, no, no pressure at all. But I want to just make space for Is there anything that I didn’t ask you about about the new reviews or literacy in general or any? Any last thoughts? You’d want to share as we kind of wrap things up?

Erin Marshman  33:18

Something that comes to mind which Steph you kind of just nailed that, as you were going through the whole implementation pieces, and you mentioned it earlier. So low hanging fruit, right. But HQIM it’s so important. It’s a piece of what Steph and I always say is like the triangle you write, you need your PD, like she was saying the implementation, your high quality instruction materials and your coaching as well. It making sure that it’s being implemented with fidelity, I think that can’t be emphasized enough to implement it with fidelity and to be able to really make it all come to fruition, you have to have that teacher knowledge. So we know that that’s key.

And making sure that you are staying true to the program, the materials that you’re using. I see a lot and a lot of different districts that I’ve worked with throughout my career is that it’s not working after year one, year two, they want to get rid of it and get something new, like did we implement it correctly? And how do we know it’s not working? Sometimes we’re not even collecting data on it. So you know, the whole structure literacy approach is diagnostic and prescriptive. So that’s what your HQIM is follow it, track your data. And as Steph said, it’s going to be pretty tough, gruesome in the first year, it gets easier and easier and you know where your hotspots are, because you’re going to be tracking your data. You’re going to be providing the PD making sure that you’re supporting your teachers along the way.

But again, just emphasizing you don’t throw the set of materials away after one year. If you’re really want to make sure you’re implementing that with fidelity and that’s something I see oh, well, this was working. We don’t like this setup. materials, we’re gonna get rid of it. Like pump the brakes. How has it been implementing? are you implementing implementing it with fidelity? And yeah, so it’s an important piece as well. And

Stephanie Stephens  35:09

I just want to say exclamation point. part that is, my favorite part about doing this work is working with the Educate educator reviewers like, we meet weekly, after they talk all day, or been at their jobs all day. I want to say the officer calls her at 8pm, by the way, so I think that’s after they spend hours on their own looking through materials. And when we come together, I’m always in awe. I’ve said it before, like they know the materials.

And I’m always in awe at the conversations that they’re had that they have during the call. And it’s just reignites every time I’m on and sparks the reason behind why we’re doing this work. It just is aft and also when I’m listening to them talk have like this impostor syndrome, because they’re so smart and brilliant. And I just like, wow, they like I look at materials too. But they find the things that I didn’t even see too. And I just, I love the reviewers. I think they just bring so much expertise to this. And the final reports online that I am so proud of the work that they do. Yeah, it’s a great group of people to work with.

Erin Marshman  36:12

I feel the same. So collaborative.

Jess Barrow  36:14

I don’t think there’s a better, better place to end and then what you just said, Stephanie, because I feel like yeah, I feel like I’ve had so many conversations with reviewers recently and I feel the same all that you do. So I’m so glad you highlighted that. Okay, well, we are so thankful that you joined us and loved hearing your experiences. And thank you so much for sharing your expertise. I’m sure we will have you both back very soon to talk more early literacy. And until then, I hope all as well and we’ll see you soon.